Don’t Be Polite With Chinese
By Greg Bissky
“Don’t be polite? What type of advice is that for dealing with the Chinese? I always heard that the Chinese were very polite people.”
Well, the Chinese are very polite people, but it’s still good advice. Of course you should be polite, just Chinese polite not Western polite. There is a big difference.
First, a brief principle about politeness: The receiver of the action, not the sender, determines whether the action is/is not polite. In other words, when I speak to you, you decide if I am polite, not me. Being polite means adapting to whom you are with and/or where you are. To change an old saying: when in Rome the Romans decide what is polite.
Each culture develops unique rules of politeness and manners. Chinese decide what is polite in China, Westerners what’s polite in the West. It’s just common sense. Or it is until you go to China, try to be polite and you are not. Then it’s confusing. Worse is, the more you try to do everything you know how to be polite the more impolite you become. Then it goes beyond confusing.
A common example is “getting straight to the point”. My parents and teachers (who teach us our manners) taught me not to waste people’s time, that it was impolite to “beat around the bush”. If I had something to say, then say it. Clearly (nicely of course, and timing was important too, but both are other types of politeness).
Doing business with other Westerners reinforced everything our parents taught us about getting straight to the point. Think of a meeting between a salesperson and a customer. What would the customer think if the salesperson didn’t even mention business (the point) for the first hour, and instead talked about non-business topics like family, hobbies, weather and politics? Would that be considered polite?
No, but more than just impolite, it would be unacceptable. In most cases the customer would sooner or later grow impatient and ask the salesperson to get to the point … or make an excuse to end the meeting early. We’ve learned that getting straight to the point is polite, thus the right thing to do.
So once off the plane in Shanghai, Taipei or Tokyo that’s what you try to do. You get to the point in business meetings. There is always a lot to do and life there is expensive so you get to the point. Nicely of course, but quickly as well: time is, after all, money. Isn’t it?
No, not in Chinese Asia it isn’t. Nor is getting straight to the point polite, especially early in a relationship, business or otherwise. If I was trying to sell something in a first meeting with a Chinese I wouldn’t mention business (the point) until he or she did, or until near the end of our allotted time. Even if that was 5 minutes before the end of an hour, I’d wait, patiently and nicely talking about sports, family, weather or restaurants for the first 55 minutes. I’d be uncomfortable, and in my (and my mother’s) eyes impolite, but unless I waited, beating around the bush talking about non-business subjects, I’d be impolite to the Chinese.
Making a very complicated subject far too simple, Westerners prize results more than relationships and facts more than feelings while Chinese prize the opposite. Time isn’t money, relationships are, and to the Chinese all “getting straight to point” is good for is offending someone’s feelings or agreeing to do something before knowing the people involved well enough. It’s poor manners.
I was joking in the title. Of course you should be polite with the Chinese, you have to be polite to succeed. But Chinese polite, not Western: often the more you use the rules your parents taught you, the more impolite you will be. This is one time you should not listen to your mother.
There’s a lot to it, but a good overall rule is to pay more attention to peoples’ feelings. In Chinese business that frequently means spending time to know each other enough to develop a mutual feeling of trust, sincerity and loyalty. After that, talking directly about business is polite.
A waste of time? It may seem so but remember, Chinese Asia has few lawyers and fewer laws, and in the end all that will protect you is your relationship, not contract or courts. Such being the case, I recommend wasting the time being Chinese polite, and saving Western polite for justifying your expense account when you get home.
Greg Bissky, BicBiz.com | Bicultural Business
March 24th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
I read long discusson from Linked-In with same topic, not sure if it was posted by you.
“in Rome the Romans decide what is polite” is another saying of localization. :)
Regards,
Ryan Zhao
ryan@ gvlocalization.com
March 25th, 2009 at 3:45 am
I read this advice with interest and a measure of skepticism about the currency of this advice in modern times.
With the global nature of business these days and with many Chinese working in global organizations and receiving education and experience around the globe is this advice still as current and mainstream or more situational depending the company and the specific people?
We mostly serve Hong Kong companies with business in the region and most of our clients or potential clients are quick to the topic at hand as their schedules are tight and they are time sensitive.
Although I do have a story that reflects the advice given.
Back in 1972 when I was a candidate for the federal Parliament in Canada I had the opportunity to meet privately with Mitchell Sharp, the Secretary of State for External Affairs and he told me a similar story. Canadian officials in China told the minister not to speak of business until Mao Tse-tung did. Mr. Sharp continued to get the same signal from his China based officials despite the meeting getting towards the end when Mao – I believe – switched to trade and the deal was basically closed. However, that was in 1972 or earlier and times are vastly different now and globalization has changed and is changing much of how we work with others.
March 25th, 2009 at 4:05 am
Oh Greg, thanks for sharing with us this simple philosophical view, and in such humoristic prose, I liked it.
March 27th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Cultural differences are sometimes difficult to understand but no matter we should always show respect and not be judgemental.
Treat people the way you would like to be treated
March 27th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Good manners are never lost, even if both Chinese professionals and Westerners used to work together tend to develop a common politeness which is halfway each culture.
March 27th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Excellent article. “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” would also be apt.
Your points are all well-taken and nicely presented. Similarly the point Greg Basham makes about Hong Kong and modern Chinese business is also true. More now than in the past, the focus is on getting business done, not so much on having tea. And with the new government regulations in China, I expect there will be more business meetings and fewer dinners.
What is missing is the requirement for the Chinese to adopt this same approach — being considerate and respectful of other cultures, not one-sided requirements for everyone else to adopt ‘the Chinese way.’
I’ve met many Chinese people in China and first-generation / expats who genuinely understand the differences in cultures and will go well-beyond being polite to make the other person feel comfortable.
I’ve also met a few Chinese who take the view that everyone else must adhere to Chinese customs, whether they are Chinese, in China, or not. They, however, have no obligation to reciprocate.
Case in point: I was hosting a project kick-off lunch in China (as per Chinese custom). One of the minor participants showed up with his 9 year old son and another boy. I quietly said something to one of the interpreters, adding that had we planned a social dinner, it would be a different matter. I was told not to ask him to take the children home as he would be offended.
So, I asked, it is perfectly fine for him to offend me? I am the host. Should a guest offend the host? The man was invited to take the children home.
If we are to bridge cultures, it must be a two-way effort with both parties recognizing and respecting the culture of the other. One-sided efforts rarely succeed.
March 27th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I was an expat in Hong Kong and then Singapore for 2 years during the past 5 years. I discovered the cultural differences very quickly, and found that my American sensibilities did not work well as filters in Chinese culture. Even in these two very western Chinese worlds, the culture is still heavily Asian–as one might or might not expect. Working for American companies in Asia, I began with the expectation that the locals should conform more to the American business culture. I soon learned that I could make little progress in Asia with such an attitude. The response that I received was polite, and positive, but I did not change Asia with my American sensibilities. The Chinese say “The mouth says yes, but the heart says no”. If you ever believe that you are in business to change Asian culture one meeting at a time, just remember–your lack of understanding about the culture is your greatest weakness.
March 27th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Politeness does go two ways and I believe the Chinese understand are respect that.
Back in the 80s I had the opportunity to see China in transformation over a number of trips.
The banquets were an eye opener….the selection of foods, the watching of the foreigners responses to the selections, the toasting…all with multiple objectives in mind.
In spirit, we gave a return banquet in Shanhai at one of the top hotel. Rare roast beef, baked potatoe with sour cream, Yorkshire pudding, flaming baked alaska….tons of cutlery and glasses…the whole nine yards….responses from our hosts went from initial astonishment as this was what was not normally done…to an experience of of a shared experience in crossing cultures…to a sort of understanding of payback goes both ways in all things…..to sum it up the overall response was worst food ever….best banquet ever as they too would have stories to tell.
March 28th, 2009 at 6:04 am
I like your article Greg, and some good points have been made in this discussion.
Taking the time to build a relationship with your Chinese business partner is always a good idea, but I have noted that this often leads to a false sense of security on the foreigner’s part. Greg mentions “spending time to know each other enough to develop a mutual feeling of trust” – but in fact, it takes much more than a good conversation, enjoyable dinner or meeting the family to build trust and a long-lasting, relationship.
In that respect, for business deals at least, having a good contract could be pretty useful as well. If there is no trust, don’t do the deal. But trust is not sufficient.
March 28th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Interesting article, although the bait and switch title left me cold. I agree with many of the writers that customs are as relative to age as geography. Case in point, in dealing with a young Chinese male pre forma, I was less than politely asked to get to the point as time was money. Maybe its like crossing the stream feeling the rocks beneath your feet.
March 29th, 2009 at 2:41 am
Hi Greg,
Thx 4 ur advice. I m a Chinese born in the mainland , so I guess I might be able to say a few words abt it.
I cant agree with u on some points. For example, being a sales director in the past yrs, I had vis-a-vis sales meetings with many Chinese all over in China, but we didnt ever spend over 20 minutes on non-biz chatting. Of course, at the beginning, we did some friendly chatting abt the weather, family or sth else like that, but usually it couldnt last over 5 minutes. What’s more, most of the meetings happened right on the button, with few paticipants being late. All of us disliked wasting time.
Surely, when it comes to dealing with China government officials, the situation might be reversed.
Cheers.
March 30th, 2009 at 1:39 am
I have to agree with Terri here. While there is a vast difference between our cultures, the concept of \”business etiquette\” is becoming more universal.
After more than a decade in China I am seeing a definite shift in how business is conducted and what is/is not acceptable. The younger businesspeople know that to succeed in the international market they need to be willing to conduct business meetings and negotiations differently than their predecessors. This does not in any way mean giving up their own culture, it means learning respect for other cultures and realizing there is more than one way to do business. While most Chinese under the age of 40 or so are keeping up with the times, the older Chinese businesses that insist on holding on to the old ways are very slowly losing ground as markets become more international.
March 30th, 2009 at 4:31 am
This is a very topical and relevant discussion and I have had the (admittedly confused) pleasure of experiencing both Mr. Bissky’s traditional scenario and the more moderate relationships proposed by Mr. Basham.
With the globalization of commercial enterprise, I see a natural progression towards compromise among disparate cultural groups as a necessity of relationship-building, multi-site collaboration and international business success.
With respect to Chinese tolerance of so-called ‘impolite’ behavior by westerners, this model of meeting halfway can be a result of one or more of the following factors:
1. a new generation of business professionals having been exposed to western culture and attitudes, thereby having less traditional biases;
2. companies with a history of international (“overseas”) business experience that have, over time, developed a familiarity with western cultures and acceptance of “offensive” behavior;
3. a perceived need to accommodate different cultural ‘norms’ of behavior in order to secure a strongly-desired business relationship and willingness to adapt.
Whatever the underlying reason, I would venture to say that there are still more Chinese business professionals who adhere to the traditional relationship-centric model. Although there is trend towards change.
Although I agree, in principle, that cultural bridging should be bi-directional, I would caution those who are new to dealing with the Chinese to be wary of taking such a strong tack as proposed by ‘Terri’ above.
In the case described, I wonder if the ‘minor participant’ actually offended anyone by bringing his son and friend.
However, I can say with some certainty that being made to leave was not only offensive to the man but downright dishonoring and humiliating, which is a more serious transgression in my opinion.
I have to ask…would the man have been invited to take the children home if he had been a “major” participant?
March 31st, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Yes to both. It’s a shame that only one-way “respect” is promoted by Kenneth. This is the very issue I pointed out.
The MISTAKE of ASSUMING the participant was asked to leave is just that. He was quietly and politely asked to take the children home. None of the other participants presumed to bring their children and they were, in fact, offended as much as I.
Several of them thanked me later and I saw an increased level of respect for my leadership that had not been previously present.
Sometimes, being considerate requires educating the other side on what is or is not acceptable. My point again that being polite is a TWO-WAY process.
I cannot count the number of times I’ve been humiliated, disrespected, and treated horribly by Chinese in China and elsewhere.
In the vast majority of situations, I did nothing. It was not my call and would not be useful. In others, it was incumbent on me to set the boundaries.
It is the unfortunate truth that this education can sometimes be a bit difficult.
Kenneth, if you don’t have the stomach for difficult decisions, how can you possibly manage a business?
March 31st, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Greg,
I think some of your points make sense, especially the importance of relationship.
As a Chinese living and working in both the US and China, I have something to say to everyone:
- Save most non-biz chats to after-office-hour activities, or your hosts will definitely start to wonder: what this guy is doing here, even though he/she won’t necessarily think you are wasting his/her time.
- During biz meetings, spend no more than 10 minutes talking about weather or family or air quality. If you wait for the other party to mention business first, I believe it is a sign of over-shooting. Normally, Chinese prefer not to lead the discussion, which is impolite in Chinese culture, when they don’t know you well.
- If you think the ratio of non-biz/biz talk would be close to 1 or higher, it just means you should move the meeting to a dinning table. In China, it is OK (and polite) to talk about business almost anywhere.
My last point: if you are about to meet with someone in his/her office and plan to spend 55 minutes on non-biz things, make sure you know the person very very very well.
April 1st, 2009 at 6:34 am
Undoubtedly, people prefers to do business with people they like. Hence, spending some time to be “polite” and establish rapport and guanxi with Chinese is good investment. Also remember that if you’re a non-citizen, then the host is actually China (irrespective of function) – and therefore it makes sense to pay respect to the local customs and people (rather than “forcing” them to change in their own country). Of course, there is always exception to the rule – a good business person will also take into account the personal characteristics of the individual (whose behaviour and expectation can also change depending on the size of the meeting and other participants).
April 1st, 2009 at 8:03 am
Thanks Kenneth,
I fully agree with your view, I guess we have to look on the situation but how ever aiming for a win-win. I wonder if the business was successful in Terri’s case?
Reading all the good and valuable comments, I tend to say, friendship first, than business, specially when we look on a long term partnership. Being patient can help more than having the “culture Shock hand book” with you. And finally we all want to have a successful business, westerners and our Chinese friends.
April 1st, 2009 at 8:49 am
Terri,
thanks comming back on this. Not easy to see always the full situation when reading a few lines… I think we all had such experiances as mentioned by you but not every one has the courage to act as you did. Results counts and obviously you where able to judge the situation right and acted accordingly. There is no black and white and we have to be sensitieve enough to do the right thing at the right moment. As more we get international or global, we can also expect the other side to know what is usual business practice in a cross cultural environment.
April 1st, 2009 at 2:04 pm
“Also remember that if you’re a non-citizen, then the host is actually China (irrespective of function) – and therefore it makes sense to pay respect to the local customs and people (rather than “forcing” them to change in their own country).”
So you are saying that it is okay to insult the host as long as the host is a foreigner?
With this view, it would ALSO be incumbent on Chinese who are foreigners in the USA and indeed, in any other country, to follow this rule that LS proposes and not impose their cultural moreas on others. Good luck with that!
In most Western nations, we have learned as nations to value diversity, to respect other cultures, not impose one country’s ideas on another, and to make an effort to get along with others who hold different views. Tolerance and RESPECT are both highly valued. This doesn’t happen at the national level; it happens among people.
I’m certainly not going to insult the visiting chairman or vice-president of the company I’m doing business with by disrespecting them at a US dinner they are hosting with the idea that they are not actually hosting and should kowtow to me merely because they are in my country.
My preference is to address the realities of doing business in a bilateral and mutually-respectful manner, based on the roles we have at the time, not trot out some grandiose, one-sided ideology based on race and geography.
April 1st, 2009 at 5:13 pm
After being in china for almost 7 years ( 1996-2003), and reading of the above articles, I did not find lot to be added, but, based on my experience I would like to point the following:
It will still take time till the Chinese will “change” and will be “polite” as western people. It also depends if you are buyer or seller. As a buyer, they will be very polite and will host you in the best way you ever dreamed, as a seller, expect to have tough time, even they need your solution.
I have established 3 joint ventures in China, and each negotiation went in different way of “behavior and politeness “. I don’t think it’s a matter of being polite; it’s a way to protect them from not losing their face in the front of their managements which is still and will remain as THE MOST important for them.
Once a deal was closed they will be very polite and you will be able to feel it immediately.
For many world wide companies China is still a sales target. We can not disregard from the fact that any business there has the potential to become a huge one. I always remember my first meeting with high ranked gentleman in Liaoning Province telling me: sorry, but we do have “only” 80 Millions of consumers.
We can not ignore the fact that none of us is the “source” with its magic solution, therefore, we should do business in the way we have learned and use to do, let them feel we are polite to them, let us show them we are polite it will only will raise good atmosphere and better chances to have the business – by the end of the day, isn’t it what we all are looking for?
As the world is changed, new younger educated generation is the business leaders in china no doubt in the coming years it will be changed for good.
April 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 am
Thanks for all above comments.
I’m Chinese girl and work in the trade company for about 4 years. It’s true that people prefers to do business with people they like. Good relationship can make double effort. I work well with my customer, we treat each other politely, when we meet difficulties in biz, we will help each other to solve the problems and make the good result. I think respect is very important in usual business practice. you can get win-win and more than you expect. I’m now will have my own company soon. I hope I can have more chance to cooperate like you guys. My email adress is 007wen_xyz@163.com.
April 7th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
So, LS, you are saying that it is okay to insult the host as long as the host is a foreigner?
“Also remember that if you’re a non-citizen, then the host is actually China (irrespective of function) – and therefore it makes sense to pay respect to the local customs and people (rather than “forcing” them to change in their own country).”
Quote marks deleted in summary emails make it seem as though I’ve endorsed the view LS takes. That would be entirely wrong. I do not.
April 7th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Just one small point: sometimes an obnoxious, rude person is simply an obnoxious, rude person, not a representative of his or her entire nation. I’ve certainly worked with Americans with whom I’m proud to be associated, but I’ve worked with a few (very few) who offend and embarrass whoever is within range. I cringe to think of their effect on people who might think they’re somehow representative of all Americans.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:32 am
“I cannot count the number of times I’ve been humiliated, disrespected, and treated horribly by Chinese in China and elsewhere. ”
I am very happy to read this. As a foreigner in China, you keep on hearing on how polite the Chinese are and how carefully you should pick your words. However, it seemed to me the Chinese never are polite themselves. They yell at each other in meetings and call each other names, and we have business relations that can truly be humiliating and disrespecting to us as well.
Indeed, when you are the buyer, the Chinese will do anything for you, if they are the buyer, don’t be surprised to be spit upon.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:59 pm
I think Chinese are just like people anywhere else. They are polite people and there are rud people. You should have your own judgement as to work with whom. If you are a loser, you will always find some excuses. If you are stonger, (do mean to be rude), you know what to find the best out of it. Being polite or rude is your own choice, it reflects your own personality, it has nothing to do with China or any other nation. We live in a realistic world, do not believe anyting like; chinese are polite or chinese are rude. Chinese are just like you, can be polite or rude.
April 22nd, 2009 at 2:14 am
Interesting discusssion and Ning Pan says how I feel. There are rude people where ever you go and in all cultures.
Anne, although I had expected to hear what you have experienced, I have yet to find Chinese people yelling at each other in meetings at all including meetings in China where I just concluded a day and a half of meetings where they acted professionally at all times. Now there are times when some Chinese will speak very loudly which sounds to westerners like yelling or angry and they are not but this is usually amongst themselves in their own language.
In meetings in Suzhou last week, a mutual friend of both the GM and a key member of our group arrived at the end of the day with her young child as our guy had brought some things from Canada for her. She and her son came to the dinner even though the GM went off to Shanghai to visit some foreign leaders. Not a word was said about it or eyebrows raised. The only time we noticed the boy was before the meal when he knocked a glass into a plate causing a bit of noise. No damage and no issues. They left at the end of the meal and it was friendly all way round the table. It was clear the Chinese managers all knew her very well. I am not sure but she might have been their accountant also. It was all professional and friendly. Not quite the kind of situation described earlier I know but it was ironic as I had just read about this on here.
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:36 am
Hi Greg,
you are definitely right, politeness is not culturally defined. Nice and rude people exist everywhere in a similar amount I guess.
I just wanted to address the fact that I get tired hearing and reading how polite and careful you should be dealing with Chinese.
I speak fluently Chinese and I understand what they say perfectly well. It’s not that I don’t like the sound of their speaking. I am working in a Chinese – only company, serving only Chinese customers. A lot of people are truly kind, and a lot aren’t. I have one specific customer that is really disrespectful (directly insulting people) because he knows this person is not the General Manager. Our sales people do yell at each other during sales meetings, which is fine, it’s nicer than people without an opinion.
This having been said, I still want to confirm that I really disagree with the advise people give you all the time to be utterly polite and watch your wordings when dealing with Chinese. It makes me tired because it is not common practice. I will add: in my company’s industry and in our local company culture.
April 22nd, 2009 at 11:24 am
Dear Ning Pan.
I have read your comment, and I’m fully agreed with you. The time there was china and the rest of the world has already past. We all become part of the global world business community. There is nothing different between the Chinese and the “rest of the world” business people. From my vast experience in other regions in the world as well ( as African countries),the way of behavior is same and sometimes even worth. We don’t have to look far, we should open our eyes and look around us: we will find people who are nice or rude. It’s OUR personal decision only to decide if we should do business with them or not… After being in China for more then four years and many years in other regions as Africa and Europe, I can tell everybody that the same situation can be found everywhere. We shouldn’t care about “internal” fights between themselves, it’s not our business, it’s their way to show who the “leader” is. By the end of the day final decision will be made in a polite way.
China was changed a lot, therefore, we should behave as we learned: being polite and patient. It always will be for our benefit.
September 13th, 2010 at 1:57 am
this is a lie, in busisness it is only to get money.
they can be polite as well as really rude.