China Has Changed; The Chinese Haven’t
By Greg Bissky
Has China changed? Companies bet millions on the answer, but it’s the wrong question. You should ask if Chinese have changed. China has changed; the Chinese haven’t.
Amazing changes! New politico/economic system. New laws, social structures, buildings and consumption patterns, different clothes. Sound familiar? It should—it’s happened twice in 100 years! (Three times actually.)
Go back 50 years. China’s 1959 changes (described above) were as amazing as changes today. But Mao and communism didn’t change the Chinese, and it’s naive to think MacDonald’s and capitalism will. China changes but the Chinese don’t.
Or don’t change in areas important for business. China’s changes are outside-in, important for what types of business can be done but not for actually doing business. That requires inside-out change, a harder thing.
China’s market is growing in two ways. First, more people with purchasing power, the new middle class. A few hundred million so far, with hundreds to come. Second, different consumption habits, coffee shops, convenience stores and beauty salons. Huge changes, yet neither affect how business is done.
Cultures develop unique ways of using language, their Rules of Communication. Chinese and Western rules are very different. Consider disagreement. Westerners believe state your honest opinion, even if you disagree. Chinese believe disagree in an indirect, discreet manner. Add the different ways each use to say No—Westerners say No directly whereas Chinese say No indirectly, if possible not even using the word No—and trouble is guaranteed.
Differences in building business relationships adds more trouble. Westerners feel the Contract determines the relationship, that differences are decided by referring to the Contract. Chinese think a Contract is a good place to start but if the situation changes then the terms and conditions should change. Meeting contract terms, doing the business, is where “Chinese haven’t changed” is clearest.
All business relationships must communicate and solve problems: success in both creates trust, failure destroys it. Misunderstandings are the biggest hidden cost in international business, eroding trust as well as causing mistakes and inefficiencies. Business without trust signals a “going broke” relationship. Westerners put faith in law, Chinese in relationships. “How can you ask me to lose money?” could only be asked by Chinese, “It’s not personal, just business” only said by a Westerner.
Westerners only see where China had changed and stay blind to where the Chinese haven’t, confusing what kinds of business can be done with the way Chinese actually do business.
How Chinese communicate, solve problems and build business relationships is changing, but slowly. Chinese control these changes, not Westerners, and fundamentals of culture don’t change easily. If communism couldn’t force Chinese to change it is folly to think capitalism will either. Use China’s outside-in changes to judge business opportunities, but let the slow change of Chinese inside-out “ways” determine how you actually do business.
One sure requirement to success is being able to see communication and business relationships as Chinese do. Westerners need to look at business through Chinese glasses.
Greg Bissky, BicBiz.com | Bicultural Busines
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May 8th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Why should you expect Chinese people to change? Chinese people have as much obligation to become more ‘western’ as westerns do to become more ‘Chinese’.
I feel your comment “how Chinese communicate, solve problems and build business relationships is changing, but slowly” sums up your attitude- and it is extremely offensive. It is this elitist attitude that gives westerners a bad name.
You are guests in our country, if you don’t like our rules and the way we do business then get out. Simple.
The most fundamental rule of cross-cultural communication is that there is no wrong or right way. It is all about understanding, consideration and tolerance.
Go home.
May 8th, 2009 at 11:50 am
China and Chinese are both changing. However, China is a country with over 5,000 years of history. You could say it’s habit. This habit pass from generation to generation. We are changing our habit. We sign contracts when doing business. I believe if you check the Chinese history, Chinese use contract to identify the relationship earlier than the western world. In addition, there are also some clauses claim that terms and conditions could be negotiated when situation changes in the west contracts. I bet you have signed such contracts before.
When talking about changing, you also need to change. You will not say the above things if you just spend some time with Chinese people. You will see that they are pretty open to understand your ideas and your thoughts. But I didn’t see any possibility that you understand Chinese.
Chinese people are becoming more west. (at least for their wearing, hair, food, etc.) I think that’s the reason you think they also need to communicate like some of the westerners like you. I could understand this. However, Many westerners who are getting more and more familiar with Chinese culture and Chinese way of life and they live in China and have their family here. I believe they still keep some of their west habits. Please note that we didn’t say that they don’t change enough, right?
You just need to be open and you will find you could enjoy China and Chinese as well.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
As far as I am concerned we all agree that China has indeed changed for the good, isn’t that because good decision Chinese makers have truly changed China, China is a huge country and changes should take their course. As in everything negotiating is always a give and take situation and there shouldn’t be any exceptions. When in China it is indeed vital to know how the Chinese Business Ethos work, however, common sense always prevails.
May 8th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
While Michelle and Mav seem to have a pretty good command of the English language, they have both misread Mr. Bissky’s column.
Nowhere does he criticize Chinese ways of thinking or even suggest that Chinese will or should become more “Western”. His article is stating in a very matter-of-fact manner that there are differences in thinking and that if Westerners hope to do business successfully in China, they need to understand this.
All societies are evolving in their ways of thinking. The “Western” way is no more concrete than the Chinese way. We are all becoming something different than we were before.
Chinese readers of this English language website would do well to remember that this site is intended to help English speakers understand China better. If you believe a columnist to be wrong, by all means, please explain why. We are all here to learn. However, there is no need to resort to insulting language. That is not what this forum is about.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
GE – you are spot on. If everyone in the world based their behavior on what was acceptable for ‘their’ country 5000 or even 2000 years ago, the world would be a very different place.
Nowhere in this post does Greg even begin to imply that Chinese people should or must change; he’s simply presenting very insightful cross-cultural examples of what the differences are in an effort to generate greater understanding.
Kudos Greg. Your writing is excellent and your points well explained.
As GE points out, intelligent, well-reasoned dialog among people with differing views is an excellent way to promote cross-cultural understanding. Insults can only reflect poor manners and lack of intellectual depth.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
The conclusion is quite right on the money.
The reality, who would ever care or even want to control so called changes in China or Chinese. There are undeniable/favorable changes in China since 1980s that provide far better and suitable business environment for westerners. I don’t believe that anyone would be dreaming of China changing its law, regulation to please NA or EMEA (I thought HK is a part of China now, right?). The bottom line is, companies like Ericsson, Motorola are happily closing deals, contracts and making money in China as we speak.
In a nutshell, money talks nobody cares the culture difference.
May 8th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Remember its only been 60 years of communism compared to 4940 years of capitalism here. Scratch a chinese communist hard enough and you’ll find a capitalist underneath.
May 8th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
It is a matter of seeing Greg’s point, not every word he uses. Most posts of his are very simple, but are often lost in translation for some Chinese…
May 8th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Greg’s post was “spot on”!! If anything, it was much too “soft”.
May 8th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
This topic is extremely interesting , have the Chinese changed as per the change of their country ? , well i don’t think that we should expect anyone to change , never the less the Chinese ! , they do represent one fifth of the world , right ! As lots of other nationalities, they did change from the outside ( the way they dress , outings , bars , clubs , western shops, buying behaviour , etc.. ) , but that is the normal evolution of a booming economy and due to open-ness to the western world which China is witnessing . Changing how a person thinks and reacts , does business ,negotiates, handles different situations , that is the hardest to change. I would like to see the Chinese business owners become more flexible when it comes to selling and making deals , by doing that ,they will surely make life easier for us enterpreneurs who do business with them , subsequently , it will make life and business easier for them too . the ease of doing business means “more business” , which in turn means more and more money in their pockets . So in the financial status the world is in right now , it is time for “flexibility” to become the name of the game.
“it is not the strongest of the species that survive , nor the most intelligent , but the ones most responsive to change ” .. Charles Darwin .
May 8th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
The opinions expressed here clearly reflected disparate viewpoints between East and West and a scene of rhubarb. Hopefully the article tells the truth behind current practice in China otherwise it would be misleading a bunch.
BTW, I concur with author’s conclusion of Westerners need to look at business through Chinese glasses. Shall we expect a second part of maybe a “Westerns have to change” Chapter?
May 8th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
I disagree with the premise that the Chinese people have not changed much in the past century. A key fundamental that was changed by the Communists is the role of women in society. This first came to my attention when I had the chance to observe the treatment of female business associates in Singapore (traditional) and Shanghai in 1990. Women in China today have far more options than they had in 1950. This is NOT a discussion of good or bad, while I personally approve of the shift, I am only commenting on its existence.
I would also observe that, versus the Westerners, the Chinese are more likely to defer the needs of the individual in favor of the needs of the group. This is probably the most common area where my Western expectations predicted the wrong behavior.
May 9th, 2009 at 2:09 am
As usual Greg has done a great article, with in-depth observations and it has been a pleasure reading it.
Thank you for sharing with us what I believe rightly or wrongly to be based mostly on your own experiences, and are quite pertinent.
I hope you will continue to contribute with your articles and not take offense by the reactions of a few other readers, who certainly have the right to disagree, except that over-reaction is not compatible with this forum.
May 9th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Okay, I promised myself I would not get involved in this thorny issue; however, then it started raining and well, here I go. The way Westerner industrialists act, as opposed to the myriad of other subcultures that make up the term “Westerners” (including Chinatowns, I suppose) is a relatively recent change in Western cultural history. IMHO, the issue is essentially one of materialism democratized; that is, for the first time in history the rank and file are encouraged to become affluent and accumulators of objects beyond survival.
There is nothing dramatically Western about industrialization; industrialization is culture agnostic. Wherever it transplants, it grows typically in a given direction albeit with local characteristics. By attributing “Western” to industrialization misses the critical feature of its insidious growth; that is, like calling a flu bug “Hong Kong” and thinking that it will reside only within its borders. Thus, China will change as long as it continues to industrialize, just as the West did and continues to do so.
And, as for comparing Mao’s revolution to industrialization, I believe the makers of this miscorrelation totally underestimate the power of materialism. Mao repudiation of materialism ultimately lost out to Deng’s “to become rich is glorious”. While superficially Mao’s revolution may seem different from China’s past, it–as past dynastic powers–sought to control or even destroy the merchant class. Hence, since Deng’s revolution is perhaps the first in the Chinese history to promote materialism, we must all stay tuned to see just how all this plays out over time. My bet is that China will change as dramatically as did Japan.
May 9th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
It’s the tone of the article that could be regarded as slightly offensive trough Chinese eyes.
I believe you should rather respect Chinese readers. For them there is a lot of knowledge to obtain reading this. It’s the quality that attracts us all.
China will change according to their own will. You must respect that. Talking according to western standards. Who show’s the best results. Capitalism with it’s business culture did finally not succeed. It’s the greed and “it’s not personal just business” attitude that where the foundations for the current financial situation. So who has to change?
China and it’s policies are admirable by any foreign governments. Everybody that has experience with the Chinese knows that things take time.
The current financial crisis should be seen as a natural selection. To survive everybody has to change wherever you’re from and who ever you are. This process leaves no room for ignorance you should adjust accordingly.
So who has to change?
Misunderstanding is not the biggest cost in International business. Because a misunderstanding is easy to solve. Being afraid of possible creating misunderstanding makes you rely on 3rd parties. They are usually not paid by results. Ignorance and lack of insight are the biggest costs.
May 10th, 2009 at 3:40 am
I couldn’t agree more with Greg’s point (and intention) discussed above regarding how and why Westerners need to better understand how Chinese conduct business. GE Anderson and Terri understand this 100%, while Michelle and Mav do not.
In fact, Michelle’s attitude is indicative of someone who clearly shows ignorance and intolerance, which is very unfortunate. If her attitude was practiced by those in charge of government policy and international business dealings, China would still be locked in national poverty. For the past 30 years, Westerners have shown China how to make money, i.e., by partnering with them; building profitable factories; introducing new technologies; and sharing its cultural diversity. Why anyone would tell them to “go home” in such a rude manner when the Chinese have benefited so much from this wonderful collaboration is beyond me.
As an American living and doing business in China for many years, I will continue to have an open mind as I adopt and adapt to how the Chinese do things. This means changing my attitude so that I can gain respect and honor among the Chinese people I do business with, which will only benefit BOTH countries.
Keep up the good work Greg. Hopefully more of your readers will see that you do understand and are sensitive to the Chinese way of doing things, which enables us Westerners to continue building successful relationship with them.
May 10th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
China had become a country of materials: money, capital… But power still sits beyond everything and can transform into anything. In that sense, Chinese hasn’t changed much. (But isn’t it the same everywhere else?)
On the other hand, there was once passion among young Chinese, the hunger of knowing the difference, it’s long gone in today’s material world. This change was hard to detect unless you are very, very Chinese.
May 10th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I read the column with interest and was most disappointed that the comments and responses from Michelle and Mav saw the original column as negative.
Prior to contract law, many cultures relied on relationships to guide their business dealings. This was possible because of village culture where there was little societal/social mobility and people knew who they were doing business with for generations. Following the industrial revolution and the migration of people to cities where they were not known, contracts had to be created to replace the now absent relationship.
In China – even up until relatively very recently – domestic travel and domestic migration were not permitted. This had the impact of people not moving far from home and rarely from their home district or county. They knew everyone and did business on a daily basis with those with whom they had an established relationship. Nothing much has changed and I believe the only reason (was it HU YAO BANG?) made contracts binding (was it in 1998?) was to accommodate the growing involvement of foreign companies in China.
I don’t thing Greg was indicating that the Chinese culture must change or that anything must change, but he does observe quite correctly that there are differing types of changes happening in China and we should see them for what they are and not mistakenly assume one type of change is an indication of another.
I could write on this for hours, but fear I will bore the readers. Michelle and Mav, I ask that you not be so defensive and perhaps re-read the article with a view to the motivation for its author’s words and you will see (I hope) that it is not an attack on Chinese culture or the Chinese population.
May 10th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Chinese have changed. Americans need to keep up.
GE & Terri, if you like Gregg’s article as an introduction to communication with Chinese, I highly recommend you take a second, deeper and more careful look at Michelle and Mav’s responses. I would go as far as recommending you consider viewing their comments as a secondary, a bit more advanced lesson in communication with Chinese.
Let me try to explain. From a Chinese perspective, Gregg’s article does exhibit a somewhat condescending attitude, and it does imply that the Chinese way is somewhat inferior. This is not a singular, but a quite prevalent view among many Americans. I personally know that “comparative studies” with a similar attitude are taught in top-tier business schools in the US.
Regardless of whether this view is “true” or “false”, the inclination to readily judge another culture from one’s own cultural reference point without even realizing it itself is an implied insult from a Chinese perspective. If you fail to understand that, I am afraid you will likely find yourself surprised time and again in your dealings in China.
May 11th, 2009 at 5:20 am
[...] balance each month) Her aspirations include foreign travel and a cute BMW Back to the New Basics Gregg Bissky got to heart of an important trend in a recent post on http://www.ChineseSuccessStories.com when he wrote: ‘Has China changed? Companies bet millions on the [...]
May 11th, 2009 at 8:01 am
I am a chinese and I agree with G.E.
However, the mind and behavior changes in China can be felt easily by chinese. All cultures are envolving from time to time. It’s not realistic to expect big changes on culture in 100 years.
What I can say, this articl is not informative enough.
May 11th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
The author wants to educate westerners on how to conduct biz honestly and intelligently in China, especially on understanding and respecting the local convention and culture. It’s beyond his intent or capability to elaborate right or wrong of the biz conducting by anyone in China.
Well, in a free world like this you do biz accordingly or take a hike. There ain’t much choices across the pond for none-poisoned growth.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
I work at a Chinese transnational company in South America. Even tough Latin America has its own indentity and business culture and protocol, we some how relate to what is defined as “western” code, after all we are in the west hemisphere.
I find this article to be right on the spot, since the author has not in any way suggested nor criticised the “chinese way”. He is just making a remark on why we as westerns should see from asian points of view and values in order to interface with them more effectively and efficiently, because I can tell you for a fact some times it can be exhausting, especially because chinese as it is mentioned in the article have completely different ways of doing business and even handling conflict management.
As a conclusion I can highlight the following:
1. Western society needs to have an understanding into this culture matters, especially in order to establish longterm business relationships with a huge giant as China, which now is just showing a tip of its potential.
2. Chinese business people need also to understand how to integrate and get grasp of the ways in how we are used to do business in this side of the world. And that is one thing that I always mention to my superiors at my job, if you hope to do business in the west you can not push us to do it under your terms, at least not 100%.
In this new globalized world, is important to follow the following rule of thumb, “think global, act local”.
……..
May 12th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Agree w/ A.F. 100%, and it just shows a right attitude and out of box thinking mindset. Believe or not, a subtle discrimination (maybe subconsciously) would spell disaster in China.
May 12th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
China and the Chinese people have changed so profoundly! In the last 30 years the change of both are probably the most profound in ALL Human History in terms of scope and rapidity! We in the West need to realize and appreciate that and have some pateince with the Chinese.
In short, give them time! The Ways a people advance in government and society are things that are deepest and most meaningful to their National Identity. They have their warts for sure and they will continue to have their warts. We Americans certainly had our fair share of warts as we extended America from Sea to Shining Sea. We still have many of our warts to work out.
So with China and the Chinese, above all we need a little patience and historical perspective in all this. They have come a long long ways folks and very very quickly. Give them time!
Cheers!
John
http://milligansstew.blogspot.com
May 13th, 2009 at 3:42 am
To do business in China, need to be patient with long term strategy. Relationship and government lobbying are the key.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:18 am
I don’t know if I make sense in that I find Greg’s article both interesting/insightful as well as having the potential of hurting local Chinese feelings.
I would also be happy to know if Greg is writing these observations based on China as a whole. My impressions of Beijing, Tiajin and Shanghai coincides with several friends (among them a Havard Ph.D.) that they are years apart from one another.
Personally having lived and worked here slightly more than 10 years, I find an area where the potential of misunderstanding is significant is where western biz engages a Chinese “returnee”. Many of these “returnees” are highly qualified from western universities and have work experience in the west as well. One of the difference I noted is the communication “biasedness” that contributes towards operational problems. Local Chinese are generally “kinesthetic” in their communications whereas westerners are generally “verbal/audio” inclined. Please enlighten me if I am wrong. Just contributing my two cents worth.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:34 am
Hi to all readers,
I just feel this thread shows in a living way, that there are not even differences between Chinese and so called western way of thinking, but also differences in the way of thinking by members of the same culture. Here are my few thoughts about the topic.
I agree that the way of thinking how business is done best is not so quite different. For sure, westerners like to refer to contracts and Chinese refer on the relationship. The reason might be, that there are possibilities to do business beside the contract. Business between westerners usually does not have this opportunity, but if so, I am quite sure westerners would also choose the most convenient and less expensive way to do business.
So if it comes to the question who has to change, my opinion is, that all partners should have a similar understanding, no matter if western or Chinese. Western business runs in the western way, Chinese follows the Asian way, the job is now to globalize the business manner, not only the business and products. How to? Who sets the rules? Open questions, already filled books.
However, most important in business, as well as in this forum, is respect.
May 15th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
I hope we forgo our inveterate American tendency to moralize our values onto their changing and very different situation. We should take the long view with China and not hover nervously over the Chinese by applying litmus tests daily to their unique political complexions to find out whether they answer to our concept of “democratic”. We need to focus soberly and dispassionately on our interests (economic, political, diplomatic, etc) and be able to communicate these to the Chinese clearly and accept that their interests will differ in some areans and overlap in many. We need a path/strategy to build on the current interest overlaps. Our overly moralistic public protestations in various arenas may make us feel better about ourselves, but they won’t really change things on the ground over there one iota or make things better for the dissidents. They may even make them worse. As Tom said, respect is a paramount virtue.
The ways in which peoples advance toward dignity and enlightenment in government and society are the things that constitute the deepest and most intimate processes of national life. The Chinese are going to do what they want to do despite public American moralizings. Firm, consistent, private quiet American diplomacy and engagement with the Chinese at all levels will go a much longer way to change things for the better in China. Above all we must remember that the Chinese are very conscious of face.
The Chinese will change. They already have changed so very much in the last 30 years and will continue to change. But they will change in their own way and at their own pace. Our publicly trying to make the Chinese jump through hoops of our own making and make them lose face for things that strike us as unseemly in their present situation may make us feel better about ourselves, but it will not advance the pace or modalities of that change. It may even act to set back the change we ultimately seek.
May 17th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
As Chinese I’d say Chinese should make more changes in many ways while the rest should change their perception of Chinese. We have to come together on common issues facing humans as a race. The ancient Chinese philosophy is all men are born good natured, later circumstances and habits change them. I’m not sure what the western philosophy is, it seems they believe all men are born sinners, that might be a difference.
I don’t suggest people meet midway like Chinese cover a 50 meters to meet others covering the rest of 50 meters, but both need to do something to work out the differences. Divisibility is what makes the world we see today. I’m not satisfied with the way we live in China today, but it is only we Chinese who can change that, hope people wish us well, so we can make a better world together. Communism came to China less than a century while the Chinese nation has existed for 5 millenniums.
May 19th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
I agree Shek and that is why I think the essential basis of any relationship is clear, cogent, consistent identification/promotion of mutual interests (Economic, business, political, geo-strategic, diplomatic, environmental, social, cultural, etc) between these two indispensable nations. To me the future of Mankind depends on it. Nations basically do what is in their national interests to do, not much more or much less. But pragmatic nations can see the efficacy of mutual interests and promoting them. To me the most solid mutual interest between the two nations is the economic/business one. That is the key and must be solidified and stabilized to give breathing space so we can work on aligning other areas/interests we may disagree on. We are tied at the hip with the Chinese. We must both acknowledge that fact so we can to get thru these turbulent times. The Huntsman appointment encourages me that we still acknowledge that fact.
We will never agree 100% of course and must be soberly realistic on that. But we agree on much and our mutual overlapping interests do vastly outweigh the differences. America must realize that we are an indispensable for sure BUT we are not the ONLY indispensable nation. China and the U.S. are both IMO indispensable as is Japan and the EU and increasingly now India and the developing nations. If the last few years has showed us anything, it is that what happens in one country has reverberations throughout. We need to foster interests and relationships that can contain and mitigate and roll back the many sources on instability out there. History teaches us one lessons – Nothing is inevitable until it happens! We need to make that International Stability and Progress happen throughout the world more than ever now. A healthy China-US relationship based realistically and pragmatically on mutual interests is key to that.
May 20th, 2009 at 1:37 am
My point of view is China hasn’t changed, but Chinese people has changed every time, everywhere.
Just like our earth, the earth is still our earth, no changed, but the world has changed every time.
Every social innovation brings about the views or the conception change of people in the society.
Many of the west society is also fulfilled with much unfair.
Some of them developed their business depond on many informal ways like commit bribery, corrupting officials and staffs etc, which they always like to say that take place in China.
However, Chinese people is of kind and industrious, you can trust them when do business,
May 20th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
China is changing. I have now lived in China 18 months. What I can say about doing business here is it is different. Different does not make it right or wrong, just different. You have to accept it that way. I have lived in Europe as well. It too was different. Was it not once said, “When in Rome do as the Romans do”? I think that really applies to China as well. It is hard setting up a business here and trying to use the thought process you were used to in the USA or other places. When I started here it took 3 to 4 times longer to get anything done. Not because of the Chinese but my approach. I have it down to about 2 times now. Partly because the staff has adjusted to me and partly because I have adjusted. I have a long way to go but keep an open mind. LISTEN much more and closely. My weakness in not speaking their language is my problem. Them know English is their strength. But assuming my English and theirs is the same is an opportunity for a train wreck.