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	<title>Comments on: Halfpats: the New Expatriate</title>
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	<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/</link>
	<description>China Business Success Stories on Chinese Business and Commerce</description>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-49354</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-49354</guid>
		<description>Richard: 

A great article, but the term &quot;halfpat&quot; implies the possible downside in a multinational company hiring the type of person you describe: someone who has the valuable language and cultural skills, but perhaps lacks the kind of business experience that multinational companies need to do business in China or anywhere, for that matter. 

Let me suggest the concept of the &quot;fullpat.&quot; 

In the last 3-5 years an increasing number of people in China with maybe 20 years&#039; experience in major multinationals, who have held senior customer and supplier relationship management, sales, business development positions. 

There are seasoned corporate people in China who have spent the past three-five years working as foreign experts for the Chinese government, teaching at universities and working with the Chinese people every single day to solve real problems. 

They have gained a tremendous amount of respect with the Chinese for their ability to live and work harmoniously, to pull together many various people as if they were members of their own family.

I think such people would be extremely valuable to the multinational company. They already have the business skills needed to hit the ground running. 

I suspect business skills may count to someone in the corporate office even more a person&#039;s ability to speak rudimentary Chinese and use chopsticks with some dexterity. This seems to be why Ford, Delphi and others spend so much to shift the so-called &quot;expats&quot; to China, often with dire results. 

I have at least 10 years&#039; experience working with and for Chinese-owned companies and government agencies in the US and China and 
I suspect the business skills and experience also count more with the Chinese. 

The Chinese know we are not Chinese, and they do not care how well or how poorly we speak chinese or understand their culture. I we make a cultural faupau, they tend to overlook, it saying: &quot;It doesn&#039;t matter.&quot; They like us precisely because we are foreigners, and we can help them do things they need to do.   

I&#039;ve found the Chinese are a lot like multinational corporate managers--they respect age, wisdom, and someone who has the ability to cooperate, and especially someone who can get results. 

I think the ability to accept and respect the Chinese is key to good relationships in China, and the &quot;fullpats,&quot; with corporate experience balanced with China experience, seem to fit the bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard: </p>
<p>A great article, but the term &#8220;halfpat&#8221; implies the possible downside in a multinational company hiring the type of person you describe: someone who has the valuable language and cultural skills, but perhaps lacks the kind of business experience that multinational companies need to do business in China or anywhere, for that matter. </p>
<p>Let me suggest the concept of the &#8220;fullpat.&#8221; </p>
<p>In the last 3-5 years an increasing number of people in China with maybe 20 years&#8217; experience in major multinationals, who have held senior customer and supplier relationship management, sales, business development positions. </p>
<p>There are seasoned corporate people in China who have spent the past three-five years working as foreign experts for the Chinese government, teaching at universities and working with the Chinese people every single day to solve real problems. </p>
<p>They have gained a tremendous amount of respect with the Chinese for their ability to live and work harmoniously, to pull together many various people as if they were members of their own family.</p>
<p>I think such people would be extremely valuable to the multinational company. They already have the business skills needed to hit the ground running. </p>
<p>I suspect business skills may count to someone in the corporate office even more a person&#8217;s ability to speak rudimentary Chinese and use chopsticks with some dexterity. This seems to be why Ford, Delphi and others spend so much to shift the so-called &#8220;expats&#8221; to China, often with dire results. </p>
<p>I have at least 10 years&#8217; experience working with and for Chinese-owned companies and government agencies in the US and China and<br />
I suspect the business skills and experience also count more with the Chinese. </p>
<p>The Chinese know we are not Chinese, and they do not care how well or how poorly we speak chinese or understand their culture. I we make a cultural faupau, they tend to overlook, it saying: &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t matter.&#8221; They like us precisely because we are foreigners, and we can help them do things they need to do.   </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve found the Chinese are a lot like multinational corporate managers&#8211;they respect age, wisdom, and someone who has the ability to cooperate, and especially someone who can get results. </p>
<p>I think the ability to accept and respect the Chinese is key to good relationships in China, and the &#8220;fullpats,&#8221; with corporate experience balanced with China experience, seem to fit the bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn Buer</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-45831</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn Buer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 12:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-45831</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting discussion and I&#039;d like to weigh in with a few observations.

I was a &quot;halfpat&quot; in Eastern Europe for 7 years and then an &quot;expat&quot;in China for 5.  It is incredibly amazing how alike the two areas have in terms of how the employment scene developed. 

Companies started out by bringing their own people with the understanding that they should train up the locals to take over the roles in a short time.  This worked for awhile but then led to the &quot;revolving door years&quot; as locals got experience and then jumped from job to job for higher and higher salaries. 

In both regions this led to situations where people moved so quickly that while their salary rose, their skill set did not keep pace.  Suddenly costs were up but performance wasn&#039;t matching it. In many cases locals were getting as much if not more in compensation than the expats - thereby reducing one of the biggest perceived benefits of the markets. 

This opens the gates for the halfpats but often they are less experienced than the senior level expats were or new to the industry. While culture and market knowledge is great it isn&#039;t the whole picture either. Enter the second wave of expats....

This cycle has kept management recruiters, consultancy groups and HR gurus around the world in business over the years.  I spend at least 1-2 days a week on this very issue with my clients. The number one question? &quot;How is it possible that a (fill in the blank........sales director, VP, GM etc.) costs that much when the market is SUPPOSED to be low cost?&quot;  

If anyone ever comes up with a real solution to this they will really and truly be able to retire wealthy.  

*and please let me know as soon as you do - I have about a dozen clients who will want to talk to you!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting discussion and I&#8217;d like to weigh in with a few observations.</p>
<p>I was a &#8220;halfpat&#8221; in Eastern Europe for 7 years and then an &#8220;expat&#8221;in China for 5.  It is incredibly amazing how alike the two areas have in terms of how the employment scene developed. </p>
<p>Companies started out by bringing their own people with the understanding that they should train up the locals to take over the roles in a short time.  This worked for awhile but then led to the &#8220;revolving door years&#8221; as locals got experience and then jumped from job to job for higher and higher salaries. </p>
<p>In both regions this led to situations where people moved so quickly that while their salary rose, their skill set did not keep pace.  Suddenly costs were up but performance wasn&#8217;t matching it. In many cases locals were getting as much if not more in compensation than the expats &#8211; thereby reducing one of the biggest perceived benefits of the markets. </p>
<p>This opens the gates for the halfpats but often they are less experienced than the senior level expats were or new to the industry. While culture and market knowledge is great it isn&#8217;t the whole picture either. Enter the second wave of expats&#8230;.</p>
<p>This cycle has kept management recruiters, consultancy groups and HR gurus around the world in business over the years.  I spend at least 1-2 days a week on this very issue with my clients. The number one question? &#8220;How is it possible that a (fill in the blank&#8230;&#8230;..sales director, VP, GM etc.) costs that much when the market is SUPPOSED to be low cost?&#8221;  </p>
<p>If anyone ever comes up with a real solution to this they will really and truly be able to retire wealthy.  </p>
<p>*and please let me know as soon as you do &#8211; I have about a dozen clients who will want to talk to you!)</p>
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		<title>By: China software outsourcing group</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-44686</link>
		<dc:creator>China software outsourcing group</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 01:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-44686</guid>
		<description>Great article and discussion.  I love the term half pats, I think it is a much better term than &quot;local hire&quot; which I have been using for years.  I am halfpat myself who has been working for Expats in China for years.  It seems that the number of halfpats has grown dramatically in Shanghai over the past two years.  Does anyone have any stats on how many &quot;halfpats&quot; are working in China now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article and discussion.  I love the term half pats, I think it is a much better term than &#8220;local hire&#8221; which I have been using for years.  I am halfpat myself who has been working for Expats in China for years.  It seems that the number of halfpats has grown dramatically in Shanghai over the past two years.  Does anyone have any stats on how many &#8220;halfpats&#8221; are working in China now?</p>
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		<title>By: Claire Lin</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-44334</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire Lin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 04:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-44334</guid>
		<description>Hello all,
I am looking for a manadrin speaker in Principal Investment area to do distress debt and special situation, do you know anyone in the market? It is based in HK and Singapore.
Thanks for your help.
Claire (claire.lin@tardis-group.com)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all,<br />
I am looking for a manadrin speaker in Principal Investment area to do distress debt and special situation, do you know anyone in the market? It is based in HK and Singapore.<br />
Thanks for your help.<br />
Claire (claire.lin@tardis-group.com)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-44202</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 10:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-44202</guid>
		<description>Terry,

i agree with you. i think HK/Taiwanese managers are infamous for their demands. This is because back in our home country (region) the employment sector is hyper competitive due to high population density, more or less equal backgrounds and skill sets. One would have to work extremely hard to stand out in the crowd. Demanding exceptional results with normal pay is the norm. 

With overseas chinese managers being used to this environment or having worked for these types of managers they expect the same from local Chinese staff. 

However, i do feel that overseas Chinese managers with &quot;western&quot; background or education are better  at bridging the gap between the &quot;hardcore&quot; and the &quot;lasse fair&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry,</p>
<p>i agree with you. i think HK/Taiwanese managers are infamous for their demands. This is because back in our home country (region) the employment sector is hyper competitive due to high population density, more or less equal backgrounds and skill sets. One would have to work extremely hard to stand out in the crowd. Demanding exceptional results with normal pay is the norm. </p>
<p>With overseas chinese managers being used to this environment or having worked for these types of managers they expect the same from local Chinese staff. </p>
<p>However, i do feel that overseas Chinese managers with &#8220;western&#8221; background or education are better  at bridging the gap between the &#8220;hardcore&#8221; and the &#8220;lasse fair&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-44200</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 09:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-44200</guid>
		<description>Charlie,

There are also a lot of problems with hiring overseas Chinese into mid-senior positions in China. Having recruited mostly local Chinese for foreign companies in China now for 13 years, I can&#039;t tell you how many times locals have expressed dissatisfaction with their treatment by overseas Chinese managers.  There is a lot of regionalism and pride in China and many overseas Chinese have little understanding or often even disdain for local culture. Beware of generalized prescriptions on hiring and carefully vet those you hire for their interpersonal skills and cultural sensitivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie,</p>
<p>There are also a lot of problems with hiring overseas Chinese into mid-senior positions in China. Having recruited mostly local Chinese for foreign companies in China now for 13 years, I can&#8217;t tell you how many times locals have expressed dissatisfaction with their treatment by overseas Chinese managers.  There is a lot of regionalism and pride in China and many overseas Chinese have little understanding or often even disdain for local culture. Beware of generalized prescriptions on hiring and carefully vet those you hire for their interpersonal skills and cultural sensitivity.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-44101</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-44101</guid>
		<description>Great article and interesting discussions. 

I now have a clearer definition of an &quot;expat&quot;. i used to think that anyone sent overseas from an office abroad is considered an &quot;expat&quot; but knowing years of experience it takes and the importance of the role i feel comforted that i am not making as much as these &quot;expats&quot; 

I guess it makes more sense for companies in china to recruit mid-senior positions from countries such as Taiwan, Singapore and from HK. These overseas Chinese understand the language, culture and are also able to fully integrate the two together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article and interesting discussions. </p>
<p>I now have a clearer definition of an &#8220;expat&#8221;. i used to think that anyone sent overseas from an office abroad is considered an &#8220;expat&#8221; but knowing years of experience it takes and the importance of the role i feel comforted that i am not making as much as these &#8220;expats&#8221; </p>
<p>I guess it makes more sense for companies in china to recruit mid-senior positions from countries such as Taiwan, Singapore and from HK. These overseas Chinese understand the language, culture and are also able to fully integrate the two together.</p>
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		<title>By: T Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-43877</link>
		<dc:creator>T Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 10:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-43877</guid>
		<description>Hi Richard,

I enjoyed your article...I don&#039;t feel quite so lonely anymore!

I&#039;m currently working in Taiwan in sales and marketing for a local company. They also operate a facility in China.

Came to Taiwan on hiatus from a few years of work for a US MNC. Took some time to pursue travel and music and eventually found myself here.   

I can literally count on both hands how many halfpats I&#039;ve met in Taiwan. It&#039;s true that there&#039;s a pool of semi-experienced, educated, bilingual non-locals just itching to get into the professional circuit in Taiwan or China.

It would be exceedingly easy for foreign MNCs to hire these individuals (economically and logistically). There&#039;s always the &#039;service&#039; visa problem though, but with a MNC sponsor, it shouldn&#039;t be a problem.

A lot of bright people here, let me know!

Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Richard,</p>
<p>I enjoyed your article&#8230;I don&#8217;t feel quite so lonely anymore!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently working in Taiwan in sales and marketing for a local company. They also operate a facility in China.</p>
<p>Came to Taiwan on hiatus from a few years of work for a US MNC. Took some time to pursue travel and music and eventually found myself here.   </p>
<p>I can literally count on both hands how many halfpats I&#8217;ve met in Taiwan. It&#8217;s true that there&#8217;s a pool of semi-experienced, educated, bilingual non-locals just itching to get into the professional circuit in Taiwan or China.</p>
<p>It would be exceedingly easy for foreign MNCs to hire these individuals (economically and logistically). There&#8217;s always the &#8217;service&#8217; visa problem though, but with a MNC sponsor, it shouldn&#8217;t be a problem.</p>
<p>A lot of bright people here, let me know!</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: gustav nymand</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-43416</link>
		<dc:creator>gustav nymand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 03:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-43416</guid>
		<description>I would like some advice on how to obtain a job in China.
I work in Denmark as Quality Coordinator in a medical device research company.
It seems to me my work experience and education will create the following types of career possibilities for me in china. 
(based upon the headhunt offers i receive for jobs in Northern Europe)
1) Regulatory affairs manager external partners
2) Auditor
3) Supply chain manager (Quality)
4) Quality coordinator / Quality manager 

My problem is that i do not speak chinese. What can i do to ensure i will receive headhunt offers for jobs in china.

I have considered it would be an advantage to
1) work for a danish company because my knowledge of danish will partly offset my lack of chinese speaking skills
2) personally apply for the work and residence permit in advance instead of having the company have to do that amount of paper work. Are there anyone with experience in the requirements for work permits in china?
3) change work to a big danish company with activities in china in order to increase the chance of an internal transfer to china 
(it does not have to be a danish company but it seems practical due to reason 1)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like some advice on how to obtain a job in China.<br />
I work in Denmark as Quality Coordinator in a medical device research company.<br />
It seems to me my work experience and education will create the following types of career possibilities for me in china.<br />
(based upon the headhunt offers i receive for jobs in Northern Europe)<br />
1) Regulatory affairs manager external partners<br />
2) Auditor<br />
3) Supply chain manager (Quality)<br />
4) Quality coordinator / Quality manager </p>
<p>My problem is that i do not speak chinese. What can i do to ensure i will receive headhunt offers for jobs in china.</p>
<p>I have considered it would be an advantage to<br />
1) work for a danish company because my knowledge of danish will partly offset my lack of chinese speaking skills<br />
2) personally apply for the work and residence permit in advance instead of having the company have to do that amount of paper work. Are there anyone with experience in the requirements for work permits in china?<br />
3) change work to a big danish company with activities in china in order to increase the chance of an internal transfer to china<br />
(it does not have to be a danish company but it seems practical due to reason 1)</p>
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		<title>By: FATSO</title>
		<link>http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/comment-page-1/#comment-42978</link>
		<dc:creator>FATSO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 13:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinasuccessstories.com/2008/05/05/local-hire-expatriate-china/#comment-42978</guid>
		<description>I think it is still an open question if there really is such a huge difference between expat and locals in pay at least for the top jobs? And what is really a half-pat? It used to mean a foreigner with decent pay but without the house and perks. If I make 1.1, live in my own place and send the kids to a local school I am an expat or a halfpat? Most locals taking my job would expect 1 mill, lowest possible is 800k, which I had for years. If you are qualified, chinese speaking, maybe former expat then why should you sell yourself cheap?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is still an open question if there really is such a huge difference between expat and locals in pay at least for the top jobs? And what is really a half-pat? It used to mean a foreigner with decent pay but without the house and perks. If I make 1.1, live in my own place and send the kids to a local school I am an expat or a halfpat? Most locals taking my job would expect 1 mill, lowest possible is 800k, which I had for years. If you are qualified, chinese speaking, maybe former expat then why should you sell yourself cheap?</p>
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